Are men or women more responsible (culpable?) for uphholding feminine standards of beauty?

I hate to potentially prejudice the responses by putting my own view here, but here goes anyway:





I'm thinking especially about weight and body shape issues...my unscientific observation is that it is women more than men. Oh if I only had the proverbial nickel for every time I heard one woman call another fat behind her back.





I know it goes both ways...there are a lot of men out there with unrealistic expectations of the way that women should look. Just curious to see what others think.Are men or women more responsible (culpable?) for uphholding feminine standards of beauty?
I feel a lot of pressure from my female friends to loose weight and have this perfect little body. I have felt that all my life, even when I was a size 8 I was called fat by most of the girls (and guys actually) I went to high school with. Between graduation and the first semester of college I went down to a size 4. I ended up running into a few guys I had graduated with and was asked out on dates, but turned them down due to the fact that they were so mean to me durring high school. I'm now 27 and a mom of 2 children (one boy, one girl) and I'm a lot heavier now than I ever was. Even now I struggle day to day with my body image, most of my friends are thin and they are always telling me that I should work out more and try to get rid of this weight. My husband on the other hand doesn't mind that I've gained weight. He really seems to like me with ';more meat on my bones.'; I think that its coming from both sides really. A lot of men want the super thin super model type. There are men out there though that want a woman with a real body, but only if that body isn't in a double digit jean. Then there are the women. The ones who smile at you and talk to you and may even be your friend, but behind your back call you fat. And there are the ones who won't even talk to you or get to know you just because you are overweight. Everyone sees fat people as slobs, as people who just don't know when to say ';I've had enough';, like they have no self control. Like all they do is sit around and eat. That's not true at all. I just think that we need to change what we see as beautiful and make it less about the super thin and more about a real body type for all women, but I know that it won't change. This is just my opinion, take it or leave it.Are men or women more responsible (culpable?) for uphholding feminine standards of beauty?
';Oh, my god, Becky, look at her butt!'; - I'd say women.
Women.
commerce.





I too have made the same observation, but as a woman I understand that we adhere to these beauty standards for survival/power in our Western Culture.





And about the weight and body shape thing I also agree that men and women have very different notions of ';fat'; and ';attractive.';





I once heard Elizabeth Hurley call Marilyn Monroe ';fat'; in an interview...just a tad bit mean don't you think?


Anyway just my thoughts to your thought provoking question.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. With just a look, a woman can demean and belittle another woman, to the point where she will want to go home and hide away. Women can be cruel to one another, and have no mercy. Why? I'm truly not sure. Perhaps its a competitive thing, or the need to make others look bad in order for themselves to look better. As a woman myself, I know this first hand, having been overweight for a period of time, and had to go through the scrutiny of the 'skinny bitches'. Sure, men were guilty of it as well, but they just dismissed me...they didn't go out of their way to hurt me or call me names.
I agree with you. I really think that women get pretty for other women as much as for men. We compare ourselves way too much and most of the time, a man doesn't even notice the little changes we make: our new haircut or our new expensive makeup.
Great question and answers. Perhaps society as a whole is responsible? As women we are indoctrinated early in our lives to try to be thinner. The media seems to select thinner women all the time as models. Men are also cruel, as one responder said, laughing at guys who date women who aren't perfect. we all need to give each other a break and worry about world peace or the environment not body shapes.
I think women...but the problem is really the media. The media tells women things, and women believe them. I don't think men have much to do with it.





But I think it's wrong to say women dress for women. No, they dress for men because of what the media tells them. The media says stick thin girls are beautiful, so women think ';To get a man I must be beautiful. Beautiful = stick thin';. Women care so much what men think of them, but they hardly ever stop and actually contemplate what men actually think!





And it doesn't help that so many fashion designers design for the bodies of nine year old boys...





So, really, the media is to blame.





By the way, I have actually never heard the word ';culpable'; before, so thanks for teaching me that. Always nice to learn a new word!
I think that men don't expect women to look unrealistic... but they only want the ones that do!! My man accepts me of who I am, but I know that he would rather have me with big boobs! Women for some reason (including myself) don't expect guys to look unrealistic (and there's not as many anyway) but we women are extra judgmental on ourselves and we expect other women to expect the same. Usually when I hear women say another women is fat, its because she's wearing something a bigger girl shouldn't be wearing!





basically, men completely support any unrealistic ideals of a women and women feel that they should be those women (only for the men though)
I believe men are the ones setting up the standards of beauty while women enforce the standard on each other I see it as the law makers making the laws (men setting up beauty standards) while police officers (other women) walking around enforcing the law by giving out citations (ugh...look at that slutty b***) and fines (her butt is fat, no wonder her man left her).





I think women enforce the laws for two reasons:


1- Competition


2- ';if you can't beat them join them';...in this case men.
If there were no men will the women bother about their beauty?


With the feedback from men ,women uphold feminine standards of beauty. Hence both men and women are equally responsible for upholding the standards of feminine beauty.
Women can be their own worst enemy. Men add to the madness, but it's women who keep trying to become something that they are not. REAL men, want REAL women.
personaly it pisses me off when a girl wears make up and things, because when you see them with out it, after youve asked her out and what not..its like DAYUM!





it also pisses me off when girls who are in like middle school wear make up, and too much, if your not attractive enough without make up putting it on isnt going to help you that much,





at least in my opinion.





also women who claim they cant lose weight, yet they never jog or work out more than twice. weak willed and unapealing.





i know its not realy answering you question, like at all. but oh well.
Woman. Every man I know will say the 'super models' are too thin, They need more weight. Woman dress and diet for other woman.
How about the other way around. men tend to put each other down as well. Sayings like ';that guy is a complete nerd'; He's such a loser for dating a fat girl. Actually women are so mean to me,that i'm not good enough to be 'just friends' even. i'm that much a stupid nice guy nerd then!
I think society and marketing are more to blame for upholding feminine standards of beauty. While it's impossible to determine which gender is more responsible, business and marketing tend to target women to desire a certain standard of fashion, body type, make up, handbags etc. While I totally see you point about women criticizing other women, they had to have received their idea of ';standards'; from somewhere. While I don't think that it is a big conspiracy of big business, or politics using images of beauty to keep women from gaining social or economic power, I do feel that the images women are subjected to every day in every form have helped shape those perceptions and the by product is women ';enforcing'; these standards.
What the phuck are you talking about?